Comments on: One Mega Churches Mega Opportunity!

By: Keith Johnson

Keith Johnson — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:06:08 +0000

Hey Randy! I’ll also respond via email directly to you so you get this, but I appreciate your interest of study. What you describe is the topic of a Masters’ Thesis or even a PhD but I don’t find anything in the literature describing the nearly ubiquitous experience of a church program becoming it’s identity.

This is probably due to the fact that all churches have “traditions” that mark their identity or distinction. It is interesting whether this is in fact a North American thing given our broad use of models and marketing that compete for people in the pew. I don’t see this internationally, at least I don’t notice it as much.

Thanks, by the way, for the compliments and the great observations! We seek to make children’s ministry less silly and banal and more intellectually and spiritually alive!

By: Randy Burns

Randy Burns — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:45:49 +0000

Wow, I think I have found a new favorite website!
I came across this blog researching another topic for a graduate class I’m in called “Issues Management”. I’m in the process of researching for a paper which discusses how an organization effectively or ineffectively managed an issue that it faced. The issue I am addressing in my paper is:
A small church (160 members) had historically (10-12 years) operated a bus ministry to transport children and teenagers from underprivileged areas of town to and from church functions on Sunday mornings, Sunday evenings, and Wednesday nights. This outreach ministry had become part of the “identity” of the church/congregation and a bragging point of those involved due to the number of children they had been able to impact. Unfortunately, due to an increasing level of disciplinary problems with the “bus kids” combined with an increasing level of volunteer fatigue the church leadership made the decision to discontinue this ministry. The decision became a major issue to long time members of the church due to it being “what we are supposed to do”.

That is the issue my report will cover. My question for Keith, Larry, and anyone else who would like to respond is this; are you familiar with any academic or journalistic studies which deal specifically with a similar topic or a topic that might be closely related which I can refer to as supporting data? If not, I understand because I have searched for a few days now and haven’t been able to come up with much. If you do know of something however I would greatly appreciate the guidance. Thanks so much and have a blessed day.

PS
All of that being said…I really enjoy watching Ed Young, Jr.’s program on television and really appreciate his willingness to use technology in spreading the message of Christ, however, there are times that we in the church feel we need to “dress up” the message in some sort of exciting presentation/show in order for people to be drawn by the Holy Spirit into a relationship with our Creator, and I’m not sure we should feel that way. I in no way am questioning Pastor Ed’s motives, but I think I would have to agree with Keith…I think I would have felt a little weird (while acknowledging that feeling could simply stem from tradition).

By: Keith Johnson

Keith Johnson — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 21:01:49 +0000

Wait a minute. I did not attempt an evaluation of Elevate since I’ve never seen it. I was only suggesting that the FORM any curriculum or sermon takes should be human not video. We’re talking about children here and what decent parent would plop their child in front of a mechanically one-dimensional learning source for an extended period of time?

252 Basic was reviewed earlier based on my view of two lessons. But my grid upon which I evaluate is pretty precise and deeply held.

I watch the audience!

I watch the kids and try to guage life change as exhibited by a growing friendship or relationship with Jesus. Period.

By: samluce

samluce — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 20:44:46 +0000

Keith you seem to dislike 252basics and Elevate what exactly is a good curriculum in your eyes.

I have used both and find both have their place and both need to be adapted to fit the service and belief structures of each church.

By: Keith Johnson

Keith Johnson — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 20:41:39 +0000

au contraire, mon frere! I just want to have the last word : )

By: Larry Shallenberger

Larry Shallenberger — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:42:36 +0000

You just called me a coward in very gentle terms.

By: Keith Johnson

Keith Johnson — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:20:52 +0000

Gentleness in written tone wraps itself in many mantles, one of which is cowardly timidity. Persistence can and should overcome any misunderstanding. When “ideas” shift the topic into the realm of “feelings” I am ill equipped.

By: Larry Shallenberger

Larry Shallenberger — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:00:50 +0000

Regarding the Wall Street quote… I understand the need for truth telling. James, however, wrote about the “gentleness of wisdom.”

There might be place for combative humor, but Keith I’d suggest that the limits of the written word on the Internet opens one up for being misunderstood.

By: Keith Johnson

Keith Johnson — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 16:54:49 +0000

check out Matt McKee’s observations on his blog!!! They’re Brilliant and coming from someone who has DONE video venues, they are also deeply credible! He concludes by saying, “Please keep as many live elements as possible for kids. It builds their imigination, their understanding, and I believe is just more effective.”

read it all here http://www.mckeelive.com/2008/07/hot-topic-church-and-video.html

By: Keith Johnson

Keith Johnson — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 16:41:34 +0000

“…civility has a way of creeping into daintiness. If our pastors lose their sense of combative humor we may grow more polite…but less honest!”