Comments on: Willow Creek Discovers God

By: Larry Shallenberger

Larry Shallenberger — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 12:01:17 +0000

I guess I need to read REVEAL and get into the study methodology and then get back.

This is all interesting, but where are you looking to have this fit into our blog’s big picture? Children’s ministry leadership? Are you leading up to lessons for all of us?

– Development metrics for spiritual growth?
– Management by objectives?

By: keithdj1

keithdj1 — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 11:24:47 +0000

Not the model per se that is being questioned, just the study that reveals something unremarkable given their aim. Should we expect more from a church that asked little? Measuring SATISFACTION is a far cry from measuring spiritual growth because they never define a fully devoted follower of Jesus Christ. In their study it may come out, but at the leadership conference it was missing. It is a fine church and it is admirable that anything is being attempted in calling people to EXPECT that they will be closer to Christ by attending church. But the solution to this complicated issue is to do more FOR people from an organizational standpoint while promoting “self” seeking. Which is where they should have begun in the first place! Then let Willow be the culmination or expression or even the outlet for a life lived with Christ–but I don’t think they have enough positions in the church, or jobs, or volunteer opportunities that give expression for all the spiritual gifts contained in their body.

By: Larry Shallenberger

Larry Shallenberger — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 10:21:00 +0000

Keith,

I might be lacking in objectivity– I made Willow my church home during my Trinity days– but this post feels like you are taking your pre-existing considers about the seeker sensitive model and using that as a filter with which to interpret Willow’s announcement.

Every church wrestles with simalar issues whether they are 20,000 or 20. But not every church attempts to measure spiritual growth or to measure the efficacy of their efforts.

By: keithdj1

keithdj1 — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:16:38 +0000

Some call it “spin” but it is commendable, though it is interesting that it comes 3 years after the initial study!

By: Larry Shallenberger

Larry Shallenberger — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:13:25 +0000

I think Willow is to be commended for being so transparent in their wrestling of key issues.

By: keithdj1

keithdj1 — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:39:59 +0000

I haven’t. I’ve ordered “unchristian” for my yearly dose of religious lit : )

By: Larry Shallenberger

Larry Shallenberger — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:31:41 +0000

Gee whiz, Keith! Looking for a fight?

Have you read the Reveal book yet?